User talk:Lucyin

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Again, welcome! --EncycloPetey 00:31, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Walloon

The definitions you added are not proper nouns, but just nouns, and should be under a separate part of speech header ===Noun===. A proper noun refers to a specific (and usually unique) entity. A noun that refers to a member of a group or class of similar objects is not a proper noun, even if it is capitalized. --EncycloPetey 00:31, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

I've moved the "Noun" senses to a separate section, but the definitions do not make clear the distinction. --EncycloPetey 00:49, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

ploughing

Please put your comment under WT:RFD#ploughing rather than starting your own subsection. Also, no offense intended, but I'm not sure we need input from weak English speakers - I say that having cleaned up several of your Walloon entries. Mglovesfun (talk) 12:58, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

bondjoû!

I just wanted to say hello!

User:Metaknowledge told me you are helping out with Walloon, among other things, and in fact, I see you are the only Walloon editor here and see you are really active on the Walloon Wiktionary!

I have read a bit about Wallonia in history books, but was never sure if the language was separate from French, so I'm glad to see you are adding words.

I looked around Wiktionary a little, and found that we don't have much for Walloon, as I'm sure you know. In particular, we are missing an "about" page. On the English Wiktionary, each language has an "about" page. You can see them by searching for: WT:About XXX, but there is no WT:About Walloon page.

Here are a couple of pages you might be interested in:

• Wiktionary:Requested entries (Walloon)
• Appendix:Walloon Swadesh list

On the English Wiktionary, we recently started a new project for languages with limited documentation. It is at WT:LDL.

Kind regards. --BB12 (talk) 06:04, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

{{wa-noun}}

Hi, would you like to study that template? Thank you in advance. --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 13:18, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Or better yet, if you want, here's Category:Walloon headword-line templates. --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 01:07, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

I think we should modify the template to include nouns that have more than one gender. --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 15:56, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

Have a look at waerbea, which lets you know what I mean, I think. --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 15:58, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

Category:Translation requests (Breton)

You can work around that category if you want. --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 16:31, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

P.s. Forgive my title typo and so forth. --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 16:32, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

Walloon lak

Hi, what's the plural form of Walloon lak? --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 15:54, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

Translations of adjectives

When providing translations of adjectives, please only provide the lemma form of the adjective as the translation. So not different genders or case forms; if we did that, translation tables would become unreadable. —CodeCat 20:07, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

Wiktionary:About Arabic/Moroccan

Hello! I have recently made this page in order to create a standard romanisation system for Moroccan Arabic that can be used as an input to unambiguously generate IPA. Right now it is meant to represent urban speech in Casablanca, although I am interested in working on ones for more rural Moroccan dialects as well and the traditional dialects of cities like Rabat. I would greatly appreciate it if you could look it over and help me fix any inaccuracies or problems that it may have. Thank you! —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 15:07, 12 September 2017 (UTC)

مݣانة

Hello,

Could you please verify مݣانة - specifically the spelling - alifs and the letter for /ɡ/. It seems that Moroccan terms are not attested but maybe I'm not using the more common or natural spelling. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 01:36, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

moved from User_talk:Atitarev#مݣانة For pronounciation, I do not use /æ/ for schwa (indifferent vowel = vowel which is NOT written as alif (ا). In all such cases, I use /ə/.

Plural is "mwagən" /'mwæ.gən/ (For transliteration, I would not use "e" in English, this letter having a pronounciation tending to /i/. I use it in Walloon, where, as in French, it can be easily read /ə/.

Here, and in 95 % of cases, ݣ is pronounced /g/. In some words, there can be a "classical" (rural?) pronounciation with /g/ and a "modern" (citadine?) with /q/ (عقد عڭد) (to bound); ڭفّة / قفّة (basket). I prefer the "g" type as reference word, the "q" being classical Arabic pronounciation.

--Lucyin (talk) 13:35, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for that! How established is the spelling with "ݣ", which is missing on the keyboards but Moroccan seems to be mostly a spoken dialect? I got "mwwagen" from a Moroccan speaker, which left doubting about this romanisation. If it's OK, I'd like to keep the conversation in one place, as is the normal practice here. If you want to draw my attention, you can {{ping|Atitarev}} me but your page is on my watchlist now, anyway. If you don't more questions, how would you spell the plural form for مرا‏ (“woman”)? -Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 07:43, 22 September 2017 (UTC)

Sorry for late answer

ݣ is the "classical" writing in lexilogos keyboard for Moroccan Arabic. For Algerian Arabic and also in the Moroccan Oujda area, the same sound /g/ is written "پ" (for example, in kilometrics borns of فيپيپ, figig, Figuig).

For "ݣ", the feat is that the three dots are often missing (In November I 'll upload you a photograph with "نڭافة" (women who prepares the dress of the bride) written as "نكافة". BUT every reader understands that the writen "ك" is NOT /k/ but /g/.

"mwwagen" is not possible as transliteration (three following consonants); it would represent * موّاڭن which would be * "mewwagen"

The ordinary plural of "مرا" is "عيالات"; the regular plural "مراوات" (/mræwæt/) has a "childish" level.

--Lucyin (talk) 16:41, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Thank you! Are you able to review entries خنشة and مرا, please? You might be interested in reading Wiktionary:Translation_requests#From English to Moroccan Arabic (14:06, 13 September 2017 (UTC)), Wiktionary:About_Arabic/Moroccan. @Wikitiki89, Metaknowledge: Please check the entries too. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 22:40, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

done (خنشة and مرا). If you write a "a" in transliteration, you have a "ا" (alif) in Arabic script; "مرا" has no "ع" (âyn) => /mra/

I have few time right now (in Octobre), but I will better follow your work in November, in challah.

--Lucyin (talk) 18:50, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

Thanks. /mɾˁɑ/ is supposed to represent an emphatic "r" here, "ع". --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 19:47, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

Tamazight audio

Hi Lucyin. I see you have uploaded a bunch of Tamazight audio files, but they are a bit messily organised, and I was hoping to fix that so they can actually get used in our entries. For example, you labelled File:Zgh-shi-tzm tafonast ⵜⴰⴼⵓⵏⴰⵙⵜ.oga with three different language codes! You indicated that the speaker is from Imsouane, in which case it should be Tashelhit, but I think I heard some frication at the end — is that just a quality problem with the audio? More generally, are these all from native speakers? —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 01:56, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for messaedje.

The idea of label Zgh-shi-tzm: the word, as written in Tifinagh, is the same in Standard Moroccan Arabic, Tashelhit ans Middle Atlas Tamazight (I always get this information from a collegue Techelhyt native speaker, but who knows rather well Middle Atlas Tamazight). The orthographies in Tifinagh are generally verified in General Dictionary of Standard Moroccan Amazigh

The double orthography in title of file allows me to find them back easily (I mean: I have a file: did I uploaded it or not ? That is why I do not label only in Tifinagh any longer (I did it some times).

I am not Amazigh native speaker. The speakers I have recorded are ALL native speakers. They are generally Techelhit speakers (referred to from native village: Imswan, Amezmiz / Imlil (it is the same speaker, born in Imlil, but grown in Amezmiz; he is my chief informer) / Smimou, etc. But I have also recorded a speaker of Imilchil (Middle Atlas Tamazight), and some of transitional areas: Goulmima (1) and Aït Bouguemmaz (2 or three); + one of Moulay Bouazza (Oulmes province, local Middle Atlas Tamazight).

I can not give you information on detailed linguistic features in pronunciation (I am not a linguist). I learned imik s imik to master the recorder and the program. So it is possible first files have artefacts.

If you have an other way to label the files, I can use it in the future (I am still interested in learning the language), and I also work in recording different versions of The Northwind and the Sun.

ⴰⵔ ⵜⵉⴽⵍⵉⵜ ⵢⴰⴹⵏ

--Lucyin (talk) 18:50, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

The issue with your labelling is that it isn't really true! In Central Atlas Tamazight, there is spirantisation (so thafounasth), whereas in Tashelhit there is not (so tafounast). As for the code ZGH, it is not a spoken lect but just a way to refer to the Tashelhit-based standard that the government uses for some publications. Besides the language code confusion, the main point of renaming the files would be so bots could add them to en.wikt, but now that I see that you have many different speakers recording these, it should be done by hand anyway so the precise dialect can be marked. In any case, these recordings are still a valuable asset for the dictionary, so let me know if you want to work on recording more of them for words we need. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 19:05, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

I realise now that the main point of audio files is pronunciation.

Myriam Mansouri (Ksan Mwi, pr. of Goulmima) has a special pronounciation of /g/ (ich-laut) /ç/ Only one file. But the special pronunciation of K exist also in Aït Bouguemmez (Azourki, file not yet uploaded).

A technical solution would be to categorize the file following speakers; than they can maybe be remaned by bots.

1. if you have in description: "di Goulmima" OR "pa Mirmans", the speaker is Myriam Mansouri as said above (South-Eastern transitional dialect); + her files are only labelled Zgh- (not -shi or -tzm).
2. if you have in description: "d' Amezmiz" OR "d' Imlil" OR "Mohammed Ourik", the speaker is Mohammed Ourik as said above (Tachelhit) (many files)
3. if you have in description: "d' après Tinrhir" OR "d' après Imilchil", the speaker is Oubazi Saïd (originating from Imilchil, but maybe having lived in Tinghir (=> Central Atlas Tamazight)
4. if you have in description: "di Smimo" OR perhaps "di Smimou", the speaker is a girl from a cooperative in Smimou (Tachelhit)
5. if you have in description: "kimere nêye-native d' Imswan", the speaker is a girl from a hotel in Imswan, but living in Agadir (Tachelhit)
6. if you have in description: "Ayites Bou Oulli", the speaker in a boy from Aït Boulli (Central High Atlas, transition Tachelhit-Tamazight)
7. if you have in description: "Hosin Lechguer", the so-named speaker is native from Imswan (Tachelhit)
8. if you have in description: "Fatima El Ouakoumi", the so-named speaker is native Aït Bouguemmez (Central High Atlas, transition Tachelhit-Tamazight)

If the work can be done so, let me know the remaining files.

Hoping it can work.

--Lucyin (talk) 20:02, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

See general proposals here

--Lucyin (talk) 11:00, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

I changed name and description of File:Zgh-shi-tzm tafonast ⵜⴰⴼⵓⵏⴰⵙⵜ.oga. The background sound is that of the see (recorded outside in Imswan). I 'll try to correct it if I find the original recording.

--Lucyin (talk) 11:11, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

Done.

--Lucyin (talk) 11:20, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for the list of speakers; since we have to add these manually, this is very helpful. It is not entirely clear how to handle the transitional speakers, but I suppose I would draw the line at spirantisation. Just to check, did you have all these people email OTRS? I doubt anyone will check, but if you didn't get them to do that, there is a copyright problem that could potentially pop up. (Also, I have responded to your message on my talk page.) —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 22:30, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I have no example of word with spirantisation in the recorded pool. If I can meet again people of Aït Bouguemess, I will check the point.

About OTRS, most people speaking "pure" endangered languages have no Internet access (it is true for most of my speakers in Amazigh as well in Walloon). I supposed so short interventions can be considered as "not eligible for copyright". If the point is discussed somewhere, let me know.

--Lucyin (talk) 10:39, 29 July 2021 (UTC)