Wiktionary talk:About Kapampangan

Standard spelling

@Leeheonjin What spelling system should be used for Kapampangan: Spanish-based sulat Baculud, Tagalog-based sulat Wawa (unrevised or revised), or the compromise sulat Samson? I'm proposing Tagalog-based sulat Wawa with revisions (such as W being replaced by U). --TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 01:00, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

Hello TagaSanPedroAko, Sulat Wawa should be used as modern Kapampangans are deeply rooted with Tagalog style of writing Kapampangan words. Nevertheless, Sulat Baculud may still be used as an alternative way of spelling Kapampangan terms or at least, the early modern term of spelling. -- Leeheonjin (talk) 22:32, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

Agreed, but what should we adopt: the original (e.g. banwa) or revised (e.g. banua)? TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 03:12, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

Let's go with the revised one. -- Leeheonjin (talk) 01:06, 14 February 2021 (UTC)

Diacritics

@Ysrael214, TagaSanPedroAko: Currently this guide says: "Kapampangan does not permit syllable- or word-final glottal stops, and the circumfix and grave accents should not be used", which is not correct. Kapampangan has word-final glottal stops, and there are basically two systems to indicate them (together with length/stress): the traditional system with three diacritics that corresponds to the national system (nasì [ˈnaːsiʔ], alâ [ʔa'laʔ], dagúl [daˈɡul], pota [ˈpɔːta]) and the Batiáuan system with two diacritics (násî [ˈnaːsiʔ], alâ [ʔa'laʔ], dagúl [daˈɡul], póta [ˈpɔːta]). @Ysrael214 has added a number of entries with the Batiáuan diacritics, so maybe it's time for us to codify them here. Personally, I find the traditional system probably more practical for Wiktionary purposes since non-Kapampangans (thus the majority of Wiktionary users) will naturally be more familiar with it, but I am fine either way. Austronesier (talk) 19:59, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

@Austronesier Default stress for Batiauan is the ultimate stress. So, dagul doesn't need a stress mark there. Because of that, the penultimate stress has to be marked in all existing Kapampangan orthography for clarity. Also I heard (well on my limited view) Kapampangans don't like the Tagalog-like stress marks (like when KWF or the Committee of the Filipino Language tries to reform Kapampangan orthography) for trying to be like Tagalog and ignores cultural identity or something.

Well to be fair all of them I think are used but I think Batiauan orthography is more commonly used than the traditional one. Maybe not practical at first but you'll learn Kapampangan identity better I guess on how they write it, maybe a guide will help non-Kapampangans adjust.

Though, maybe someone has better thoughts on this. Ysrael214 (talk) 20:25, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

@Ysrael214: Thank you for the correction about the usage of the acute. I have followed this paper, but dagul without stress marker is indeed much more elegant, as it leaves the acute to function as a marker of vowel length (with predictable stress placement). I agree that we should use a system that has the greatest acceptance among native speakers, especially among those who care about their own language. –Austronesier (talk) 20:47, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

@Austronesier And yes, Batiauan orthography is somewhat closer to the Kapampangan Kulitan script. (as also stated in that paper, stress marks indicate also an additional character in Kulitan script, like Additional Kulitan vowel to non-ultimate character = stress mark (+ elongation), for ultimate character = glottal stop, if ending in a vowel ofc) Ysrael214 (talk) 21:34, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

Pinging also @Leeheonjin. –Austronesier (talk) 20:01, 13 November 2022 (UTC)