Talk:こなた

Genitive marker

See Talk:所 and read the whole page long on Vovin's rejection of this particle.

(Notifying Eirikr, TAKASUGI Shinji, Atitarev, Fish bowl, Poketalker, Cnilep, Marlin Setia1, Huhu9001, 荒巻モロゾフ, 片割れ靴下, Onionbar, Shen233, Alves9, Cpt.Guapo, Sartma, Lugria, LittleWhole, Kwékwlos, Mellohi!): Chuterix (talk) 03:05, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

See Talk:の#Apophony. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 21:50, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

It seems originated from *kən(ə) «此(こん) (kon) / 此(この) (kono)» + *kata «方(かた) (kata)» (medial /k/ can lenite via /h/, like 出雲(いづも) (izumo, 出(い)づ (izu) + 雲(くも) (kumo))), which is not reflected in the old spelling and looks as if it dropped suddenly from the literatures because it had been regarded as a allophone of /k/.

Including 此(この) (kono) and 物(もの) (mono, VS 物(もん) (mon), see also dialectal form ムノ muno which is distributed in Gifu predecture accorindig to 日本国語大辞典, which indicates that its protoform is *monə against Arisaka's rule), の (no) has strange dialectal equivallent ん (n) which is never describable in normal vowel shift theory of PJ (disappearing of *ə is irregular). I suspect existing of genitive な itself, or think if it was originally part of the word stem, since it can occur on very limited words. Many of them have 被覆形/露出形 alternation, otherwise the word has final *i (like *mi/mina «水, "water"») or is *momo/momona «百, "hundred"» which is said made from 物物(ものもの) (monomono) according one thory, as far as I know.--荒巻モロゾフ (talk) 04:03, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Just for reference:

mono:

ムノ〔岐阜・鳥取〕ムン〔岐阜・鳥取・鹿児島方言〕モ_ン〔愛媛周桑〕モン〔福井・愛知・伊賀・神戸・和歌山県・鳥取・伊予〕

momo:

語源説

(1)モロモロ（諸々）の義〔名語記・日本釈名・名言通・紫門和語類集・日本古語大辞典＝松岡静雄・日本語原学＝林甕臣・大言海〕。

(2)モノモノ（物々）の義〔日本釈名・国語の語根とその分類＝大島正健・大言海〕。

(3)モロモチ（諸持）の略〔百草露〕。

(4)モモ（最々）の義〔和訓栞・言葉の根しらべ＝鈴江潔子〕。

(5)トト（十々）の義〔名語記・言元梯〕。

(6)モトニモドルの義〔和句解〕。 Chuterix (talk) 22:20, 27 December 2023 (UTC)