Talk:piirakka

Should definition 2 be pirozhki and 3 pastry (not pasty)? Polish pierogi are dumplings, not pies. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 13:23, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

From Old East Slavic?

@Useigor, Hekaheka: Re: diff - is it really from East Slavic, not modern Russian? See also patukka. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 23:32, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

Atitarev, did you misunderstood the diff? It still says that it's from modern Russian; Useigor merely added the prior step in the etymology. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 23:43, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

@Metaknowledge: No, I didn't. I just thought the prior step was irrelevant here. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 10:22, 26 May 2018 (UTC)

I agree, but it's not wrong, and it doesn't deny that it comes from modern Russian. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 10:51, 26 May 2018 (UTC)

@Atitarev It can be useful to compare with older borrowings and see how phonemes are reflected. —Игорь Тълкачь (talk) 17:25, 26 May 2018 (UTC)

I don't know. When we go enough back in time, the whole etymology business becomes more and more speculative. How do we know that the Slavs did not borrow this word from the early Finno-Ugric people that used to populate much of what is now known as Russia? I would rather want to speak of common vocabulary in cases in which there's no way to be sure. "Pie" is pirukas in Estonian and piirai in Livvi Karelian, which makes me think that the loan - assuming that it was from Slavic to Finno-Ugric - may not be a recent one but took place hundreds of years ago. Thus it might as well be common vocabulary with Old East Slavic which was spoken from 10th to 15th century according to Wikipedia. Interestingly, "pie" is byrek in Albanian and our entry on it says that it was borrowed from Ottoman Turkish بورک (börek). Thus who borrowed what from where is quite uncertain. Perhaps the Slavic, Turkic and Finno-Ugric people who lived in central Eurasia in prehistoric times all shared the word. --Hekaheka (talk) 02:11, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

RFV discussion: April 2024

The following discussion has been moved from Wiktionary:Requests for verification (permalink).

This discussion is no longer live and is left here as an archive. Please do not modify this conversation, but feel free to discuss its conclusions.

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piirakka

Finnish. Rfv-sense: "pierogi, pirog". These do not even refer to the same thing. — SURJECTION ^{/ T / C / L /} 14:56, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Although it's not clear-cut piirakka is typically baked in oven, pelmeni is steamed or boiled in water[1] and keitinpiirakka or sulhaspiirakka - despite its name - is deep-fried in oil or shallow-fried on pan[2][3].

If en-Wikipedia is to be trusted, "pirog" is clearly a variety of piirakka. Based on description in Wikipedia and Wiktionary, "pierogi" would probably be classified as pelmeni in Finnish.

I gave it a shot, defining "pirog" as Russian-style (whatever that means) pie and deleting "pierogi" from the definitions. --Hekaheka (talk) 21:19, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

That looks better - some of those might be best defined as subsenses, but I think this RFV can be considered withdrawn. — SURJECTION ^{/ T / C / L /} 09:15, 7 April 2024 (UTC)