Talk:twayblade

RFV discussion: February 2020

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twayblade

The definition: "Any of several orchids, of the genera Canarium (syn. Lipara) and Neottia (syn. Listera, that have a pair of basal leaves" seems to have multiple issues:

1. genus Canarium does not seem to be a genus of orchids and not even a close relative
2. Lipara appears to be a genus of flies
3. according to several Onelook dictionaries "twayblade" may refer to orchids of the genera Liparis and Listera
4. according to Wikipedia, Listera is now considered to belong to another genus Neottia
5. according to Wikipedia, Liparis are known by the common names "widelip orchid" and "sphinx orchid" but "twayblade" is not mentioned.

Do we have any botanists in our editor base who could help? --Hekaheka (talk) 07:13, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

The correct genera are Liparis and Neottia. "Twayblade" is a common name that only applies to certain species of Liparis, so it's only mentioned on the pages for those species (for example Liparis loeselii, the bog twayblade). I have no idea where Canarium figures in all of this, since it goes back to Linnaeus and beyond as the name for several economically important East Asian trees.

By the way: this would have been better at the Tea room, since the existence of the term isn't in question- just the definition. Chuck Entz (talk) 13:52, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

I take that back: Lipara nigra is a synonym for Canarium nigrum, which in turn is a synonym for Canarium pimelum. It's still massively wrong, but at least it makes sense. Chuck Entz (talk) 14:05, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

I have no recollection of why Canarium is in this entry, though my change inserting it is only a few months old. Chuck's findings point to a possible source of the error.

I have added about ten species that have twayblade as part of their name. They are all currently in genera Liparis and Neottia. It seems that only members of these genera that can be found in North America have vernacular names with twayblade. Names containing twayblade are not necessarily the most common vernacular names for some of these, especially in genus Liparis, the North American members of which are mostly called widelip orchids or wide-lip orchids. DCDuring (talk) 04:18, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

• Do we need to find citations once Canarium is removed from the definition? It would not be too hard to do so. DCDuring (talk) 04:24, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

I removed Canarium from the definition, added a usage note and removed RFV. The definition and usage note look like this now:

Noun

twayblade (plural twayblades)

1. Any of several orchids, of the genera Neottia (syn. Listera) and Liparis, that have a pair of basal leaves.

Usage notes

• The orchids of genus Liparis are generally known as widelip orchids or sphinx orchids, but some species feature twayblade in their common name.

--Hekaheka (talk) 07:29, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

OK. DCDuring (talk) 02:59, 26 February 2020 (UTC)