Talk:do the nasty

Phrasal verb?

Algrif has twice removed my inclusion of Category:Phrasal verbs for this term. (I am a bit disappointed that he did not see fit to replace it with a category he felt was more appropriate.) I reverted the change once based on the definition of phrasal verb given at the time by Wiktionary. However, after the second reversion (which, by the way, incorrectly implies that I claimed "the nasty" was an adverb or preposition, despite my edit summary clearly justifying my edit by Wiktionary's own definition), I decided to do a little research. I found that a number of semi-authoritative sources I found on the web concurred with Algrif's more limited definition, although several gave some wiggle room by saying "usually" an adverb or preposition.

On that basis, I've left Algrif's edit and also changed our phrasal verb entry. I'd like to know, however, if there is another term for a verb phrase used as an idiom that does not meet this strict definition of phrasal verb, or if any authoritative references use the broadened meaning originally stated in our entry. ~ Jeff Q 19:57, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Firstly, may I say that no offense was ever intended. The definition of a phrasal verb is clear in that the particle is either a preposition or an adverb. This is a grammar definition fact. Anything else, such as this the nasty phrase, is an idiom. What are the problems? 1) At the moment Wikt. is trying to sort out what to do with idioms, and so the category English idioms has been suspended for the moment. Ask Connel MacKenzie for more info. 2) The only troublesome decision with phrasal verbs is whether they are phrasal or simple, as the preamble to the category page says. -- Algrif 20:13, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

In Wikimedia, there is no such thing as a "fact" without a source, and the sources I found are not unanimous on the subject. That's why I posed the question. I suspect you are correct that most definitions limit the scope, but despite being an English Honors student clear through college, I really don't know or recall. What I do know is that my exposure to worldwide use of English through Wikipedia overturned my concept of grammar "facts", so much so that I spent a few months perusing English style dictionaries from various countries around the world just to see they varied. (This particular issue didn't come up then.) I also know that many people seem to be quite adamant that their understanding of English is the correct one. I believe the best solution for such situations, just like on Wikipedia, is to cite reliable sources — again, the reason for my question. By the way, at least one source I found defined "phrasal verb" as using the additional words to form an idiom, which would imply your idea to draw a clear line between phrasal verbs and idioms is not universally held. (But I admit it may have been wrong, as it was not one of the authoritative tomes I'm looking for. And sorry about the hanging preposition, up with which I occasionally put. ☺) ~ Jeff Q 02:23, 8 September 2007 (UTC)