Talk:drive away

The following information passed a request for deletion.

This discussion is no longer live and is left here as an archive. Please do not modify this conversation, but feel free to discuss its conclusions.

---

drive away

Both senses are the verb drive followed immediately by the preposition away. Doesn't function as a single unit. Other prepositions can be used; drive into; drive towards; drive up; drive down; drive across etc. Mglovesfun (talk) 14:19, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

The first sense yes, the second one I'm not so sure about. -- Liliana • 16:28, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm unfamiliar with the second sense, "to force someone to leave". I know the sense "to cause someone to leave", which is probably what's meant, and that's SOP. The first is certainly SOP. Delete (or bring the second to RFV and delete the first).​—msh210℠ (talk) 17:10, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Some lemmings say keep. McGraw-Hill Dictionary of Idioms and Phrasal Verbs has both senses. A few other dictionaries have one or both of these. See “drive away”, in OneLook Dictionary Search.. DCDuring TALK 18:01, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Believe it or not, we don't seem to have a sense at drive to cover #2, the closest seems to be "To herd (animals) in a particular direction." If you generalize this to include things that aren't animals (though I suppose, a human is an animal) and change the word 'herd' which chiefly refers to animals, it should be ok. I think this sense of drive that we lack is usually used with 'away' when referring to people. However, [books.google.co.uk/books?id=Hce8_tXv63EC&pg=PA104&dq="drove+him+into+a+corner"&hl=en&sa=X&ei=H9smT7OoK5SQ8gOHw7XABw&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q="drove him into a corner"&f=false this citation] "Eventually, Sullivan drove him into a corner and knocked him down." referring to boxing uses 'into' instead of 'away', so it can refer to humans without the preposition away being used. Mglovesfun (talk) 18:05, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

• Keep both senses outside CFI as phrasal verbs and translation targets. The tentative translation target criterion that I am using: "The term has to be useful for translation into at least three languages and the three translated terms (i) must be single-word ones and (ii) they must not be closed compounds." DCDuring's consideration of lemmings is also of interest. --Dan Polansky 12:16, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

  As an aside, it is rather questionable that "away" is a preposition; it can be a preposition only with the non-traditional part-of-speech model that allows prepositions without complements. In any case, "drive away" seems rather disanalogous to "drive into", "drive towards", and "drive across". --Dan Polansky 12:22, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

  A similar entry is go away, although it has some fairly clearly idiomatic senses. --Dan Polansky 12:27, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Keep both senses, as per Dan Polansky. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить)} 00:33, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Seems we all agree this doesn't meet CFI, apart from Liliana who isn't sure. Mglovesfun (talk) 19:59, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Delete per msh210; one sense is SOP and the other is apparently an error for something that's SOP. - -sche (discuss) 21:01, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Keep of course. It is a phrasal verb. To my mind in both the definitions. The first might be &lit if you insist, but the second is a good example of a typical phrasal verb. I've added a usex where the word away is clearly a separable particle, and not a preposition. If you are not clear about this, then I recommend that you look at the category we have recently set up; Category:English phrasal verbs with particle (away) to see more examples. -- ALGRIF talk 10:58, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

One possible argument is that if we keep these definitions, there are more SoP definition we can add, for example a golf might drive away from an obstacle. Mglovesfun (talk) 13:07, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, but I don't see how finding SoP definitions like that can in any way make drive away a non- phrasal verb. You might as well say that if we allow look after the baby, we might as well include look after you leap and anything else that comes to mind, and use that to argue for deletion. If in golf, you drive away from something, then away is a proposition. But if somebody drives you away from the golf course, then you would immediately recognise the two phrasal possibilities:- (i) in a car or (ii) as in "And don't come back, or I'll call the police!" You would not assume (iii) "-with a nº 6 iron". (or would you??) -- ALGRIF talk 13:48, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

The first sense is literal, but the second means more than compelling someone to do something; that something is to leave. Even if it were sum-of-parts, this is not a primary sense of the word drive and not obvious in meaning. Strong keep. DAVilla 15:41, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

All of the meanings seem linguistically possible, though some are much more likely in specific contexts.

As I hear it, the particle away adds the notion of successful completion of the activity of driving. It seems to me to be like the meaning added by up in clean up (base meaning) and away in run away. I'm not sure that we have this function defined for either word. There may be other adverbs that have a similar meaning or function, like through or over. IMHO, whether or not the particles can be deemed to have such meanings, there may be sufficient semantic difference between verb + particle and the meanings of the components so that the phrasal verb merits. But, IMHO, there probably are cases in which the potential phrasal verb is more economically considered SoP. DCDuring TALK 17:01, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

Keep. And I'd say "drive to" and "drive down" also merit entries. ("You drove him to insanity" is metaphorical, since drive is usually a physical action. "It was the night they drove old Dixie down" would seem to mean something similar to "crushed" or "suppressed") —Quintucket 17:28, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

• Hi DCD. Well, yes. Particles in phrasal verb constructions are considered to contribute as much (if not more) to the full meaning of the verb, as the verb half itself. Hence we can find that away forms phrasal verbs with meanings commonly of - but not limited to - elimination (throw away, chuck away, take away), distancing (run away, slip away, break away), and action without control (blaze away, fire away, fritter away). Drive away seems to be mainly about distancing. -- ALGRIF talk 18:10, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

  re: Algrif: I hadn't thought about the out-of-control sense. It would be a worthwhile project to document the meanings of these adverbs or particles.

  In this case, though the lexicographers at some other dictionaries seem to think there is idiomaticity, I don't yet see it.

  re: Quiontucket: (deprecated template usage) Drive, as many verbs, has metaphorical meanings with which metaphorical meanings of (deprecated template usage) away would associate.

  DCDuring TALK 18:26, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

Delete per Mg's original comment. Both senses are drive + away. Equinox ◑ 23:24, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Delete; not phrasal or idiomatic. The second sense, which appears to be of concern, can be expressed also as "drive out" or "drive off". There is nothign special about the prepositional/adverbial element in the combination. --EncycloPetey 22:04, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

Hi EP. Question; How does the example of two other phrasal verbs drive off and drive out make drive away non-phrasal? Surely it does quite the opposite. Another question; Why do you think that "drive away" is non idiomatic in a sentence such as Rising crime in this part of town is driving away our customers. ? How on earth can that be simply "drive" + "away" ? -- ALGRIF talk 18:24, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

Sense 1: Kept as no consensus. Sense 2: Kept. — Ungoliant ^(Falai) 02:50, 13 August 2012 (UTC)