Talk:habla

Tagalog

Hello @Ysrael214,

This is in response to your revert of my edit. You stated:

/h/ is not pronounced anymore when Spanish arrived in Philippines as evidenced by 1613 dictionary spelling those words without H. Late borrowing since people forget that "h" is silent and lets the spelling of "h" be pronounced as /h/. Example: istoryador is now pronounced as historyador, not due to early but late borrowing.

/h/ (formerly /f/) was indeed still pronounced in Spanish at the time of their arrival in the Philippines. In parts of the Spanish-speaking world, /h/ was preserved until the 20th century, according to this Wikipedia article on the History of Spanish.

This is evidenced in Tagalog words like harina, hulma, horno, and Cebuano holmigas. Take note that they came from Spanish words that originally started with /f/.

Furthermore, I own a copy of the 1613 San Buenaventura dictionary. On page 655, you will find habla. You will not find entries for abla.

--Christopher Sundita (talk) 06:23, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

@Christopher Sundita Yes okay, I stand corrected: it was my mistake to not check SB 1613 if habla existed since I saw abla is a doublet. However, yes early borrowings that pronounce /h/ do exist but they are more rare than late borrowings that pronounce /h/ due to orthography errors. But it seems to me that the only /h/s that get pronounced in early borrowings are those that were inherited from Latin words that start with /f/. In this case, Tagalog habla from Latin fābula, Tagalog hulma from Latin fōrma, Tagalog hibla from Latin fibra, and Cebuano holmigas, from Latin formīcae. And if you would look in the same San Buenaventura dictionary (I also own a copy), Habito, is translated to Tagalog abito, and other common Spanish words like hay or hoy are written as ay and oy. Harina on the other hand, I think is part of late borrowings turning to /h/ (despite inherited from farina), as well as rehabilitasyon. (Well, Spanish was being taught even after Spanish period, maybe it was that)

To conclude, I agree with you right now that habla is one of those words that got the /h/ because of early borrowing not late. Either too early or too late. Thanks. Ysrael214 (talk) 13:25, 1 November 2023 (UTC)